“Got it!”: published a transcript of the conversation between Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew and the head of the Russian Orthodox Church Kirill
Published transcript of a three-hour meeting between Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew and the head of the Russian Orthodox Church Kirill during a meeting at the Phanar on August 31.
Corresponding Teks Protocol was published by the website othodoxia.info. The primates discussed the differences between the churches and the attitude of the Russian Orthodox Church to the issue of inter-Church relation and inter-Christian dialogue. One of the hottest topics was the Ukraine.
Ecumenical Patriarch: Ukrainians do not feel comfortable under Russian rule and want to be absolutely free in religious and political level, and therefore asked the Church to help them.
Mother Church believes the request is legitimate and will follow the policy, which was agreed at the last session of the Holy Synod.
In addition to former President Yanukovych, whom I met 10 years ago, the rest arrived, asked and begged the Ecumenical Patriarchate on the autocephaly. In recent years, not only the President, but the Parliament adopted relevant decisions.
Moscow Patriarch: his Holiness, all those that you mentioned are one and the same political force.
Ecumenical Patriarch: But they are the representatives of the Ukrainian people.
Moscow Patriarch: They are not representatives of the people. Seized power in a coup in Maidan. They want autocephaly to strengthen their power, which was seized illegally. The people will overthrow and expel from power, therefore strive and want autocephaly in order to stay in power with the support of the authority of the Ecumenical Patriarchate.
The Ecumenical Patriarch: the edition of the Tomos of autocephaly of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church — it is the right of the Mother Church.
Moscow Patriarch: the Granting of autocephaly of the Ukrainian Church is not just a question of the Church of Constantinople, but all Orthodox and, therefore, our Orthodox Church.
Bartholomew recalled that neither Kirill or Metropolitan Hilarion do not have the right of entry into Ukraine, and that they do not remember during worship.
“Do you think that this is not a problem? Is this not convincing proof that you are not greeted kindly?” he asked.
Moscow Patriarch: You link these questions to his Holiness, with the attitude of the Ukrainian people to me or with respect to the current political power? I think that these are two different things. Today political force, which represents only 8% of the population, against me but the people of Ukraine by their prayers support me. Here they are, not politicians, are the Church.
They were arguing about the approaches of the two churches and interpretations of historical events. Cyril recalled the necessity of establishing a scientific conference which will focus on the analysis of historical events.
Moscow Patriarch: I Think that the dialogue would be more helpful than the errors that will disrupt the unity of Orthodoxy.
The Ecumenical Patriarch Is not Ecumenical Patriarchate has violated the unity and harmony. It makes those who want to undermine the authority of Constantinople the Mother Church, those who are trying to humiliate her.
Moscow Patriarch: You mean us, Holiness?
Ecumenical Patriarch: of Course.
Moscow Patriarch: that’s Why we came here, your Holiness, to clarify the issue.
Ecumenical Patriarch: You, Holiness, talking about the fact that you have millions of believers and that you have because of this political force. But how many of these millions were baptized? How many of them go to Church to worship? For Orthodoxy is never the number of believers was not a criterion. On the contrary, always was the criteria Holy rules, tradition and canonical order.
The parties discussed the issue of filing appeals, as well as the right to issue Tomasi about autocephaly. Bartholomew asked Cyril to give him a dossier of the head of the UOC-KP Filaret, who has repeatedly applied for consideration of his case, as the Russian Orthodox Church imposed anathema.
Moscow Patriarch: We approach this practice differently. The privilege of the Ecumenical Patriarchate to grant Tomasi to install Autocephalous churches practiced not because it has this power, but because the local Orthodox Church was established in the framework of the countries of its ordinary jurisdiction. Ukraine is part of Russian lands of the Russian Church.
Ecumenical Patriarch to the Church: You said that the President bribed the Ecumenical Patriarch. I ask you directly: can you prove it? If you can’t, you are against the Mother Church and she casts the curse on you. It is impossible to forgive when you deliberately lie.
Metropolitan Hilarion: I said that the schismatics who come to the Ecumenical Patriarch, known to us in Russia, and that they come not with empty hands.
Ecumenical Patriarch: All you clear.
In the discussion intervened Kirill, who asked the Ecumenical Patriarch to surround the Eminence love.
Ecumenical Patriarch: Holy Brother, he did it many times, he is constantly aggressive and hostile to the mother Church of Constantinople. I ask you to punish him, so he behaved in a manner befitting his dignity, because he is acting to the detriment of you.